You can't beat the oldies

Glavna poenta ove teme je da ljudi mnogo propuštaju dobre muzike u životu time što ne daju šansu starijoj muzici. A bar sad je to lako, kad ima sve na JuĆubu.

Sporedno je prepucavanje oko vječne dileme, da li je bolja stara ili novija muzika.

Nek bude ovo opuštena tema: ja postujem nešto matoro, vi nešto novije, pa da vidimo kako će ljudi reagovati, dokle ćemo dotjerat i ko će koga ubijediti.

Lično navijam za vas, volio bih da me ubijedite da je nova muzika bolja ili bar ista... to bi mi dalo nadu. Al neću se dati lako ubijediti. :)

Na ovoj temi ću se ograničiti na postovanje pjesama koje su stare najmanje 30 godina... (a često i preko pedeset godina) A vi postujte ili svoj izbor matorih pjesama, ili novije kojima bi kontrirali tezi da je stara muzika bolja.

Krenuću od onih koje su već prešišale 50 godina.

1) Ray Charles - What'd I say (1959) - 62 godine - za ovu pjesmu se vezuju dve anegdote. Jedna da ju je Rej Čarls jednom prilikom kreirao na licu mjesta improvizujući, jer je trebao nečim da popuni vrijeme koje mu je dato za svirku. Druga, da su Bitlsi na nekoj žurci kad su čuli tu pjesmu, toliko se navukli na nju, da su cijelo veče samo nju iznova i iznova puštali na gramofonu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPLZL4s_jtI

2) Steppenwolf - Born To Be Wild (1969) - 52 godine - nesputani duh hard roka, kakav i dolikuje godini kad su ljudi prvi put kročili na Mjesec. Prva pjesma u kojoj je pomenut termin "hevi metal"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egMWlD3fLJ8

3) The Who - Baba O'riley - (1971) - 50 godina - izuzetno neobičan uvod, a onda kreće rokanje

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KRpRMSu4g

4) The Beach Boys - Good Vibrations (1966) - 55 godina- psihodelija za koju je bila potrebna poveća količina LSD-a, i produkcija mnogo ispred svog vremena...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eab_beh07HU

5) The Beatles - She's Leaving Home (1967) - 54 godine - jedna od najpotcijenjenih pjesama Bitlsa, pjesma ima dosta zajedničkog sa umjetničkim pjesama iz klasične tradicije, neki su čak poredili uratke Bitlsa sa tog albuma (Sgt. Pepper) sa Šubertom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaBPY78D88g

Jos jedna iz iste godine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WoeAIz0jXU

Ovo je suvo zlato.
Sket na kraju je sam po sebi vredan vremena.
I ono pucketanje ploče na samom kraju, kao kamin.

Evo nešto baš matoro, a domaće
1936
A i dalje poznata pjesma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpkcG_gvUNg

AI se slaže. U značajnoj mjeri.

Citat:This is one of the most debated topics among music lovers, and the fascinating answer is that it's both true and false, depending on how you measure it.

Let's break down the arguments, from objective data to subjective experience.

---

### The Argument That "Yes, Music Is Getting Worse" (The Data-Driven Case)

Several scientific studies have analyzed popular music over the decades and found measurable changes that many people would interpret as a decline in quality.

The Loudness War:Starting in the 1990s and peaking in the mid-2000s, producers began mastering songs to be as loud as possible to stand out on the radio and on CDs. This was achieved by compressing thedynamic range*—the difference between the quietest and loudest parts of a song. The result is music that feels sonically flat, less nuanced, and more fatiguing to the ear. While streaming services have started to curb this trend by normalizing volume, its effects on production linger.
Harmonic and Melodic Simplicity:A 2012 study published inScientific Reports* analyzed nearly half a million songs from 1955 to 2010. They found a clear trend towards harmonic simplification. In other words, songs today tend to use fewer and more repetitive chord progressions than songs from the 60s and 70s. The four-chord loop (I-V-vi-IV), which has always been popular, is now overwhelmingly dominant.
Timbral Homogeneity:* The same study found that the variety of instruments and sounds (the "timbral palette") has decreased. While the 60s and 70s saw a rich mix of brass, strings, varied percussion, and unique guitar tones, much of today's pop is dominated by a smaller set of synthesized sounds, drum machines (like the 808), and processed vocals.
Lyrical Simplification:* Research on song lyrics has shown a trend towards more repetitive words, simpler vocabulary, and a greater focus on self-centered or narcissistic themes compared to previous decades.

#### If So, Since When?

Based on this data, the major shift seems to begin in the late 1990s and accelerates significantly through the 2000s. This timeline corresponds with the rise of digital production software (DAWs), the peak of the Loudness War, and the shift in the music industry caused by file-sharing and later, streaming.

---

### The Argument That "No, Music Is Just Different" (The Counter-Argument)

This side argues that the metrics above don't capture the whole story and are biased toward an older definition of "good music."

Nostalgia is a Powerful Drug:This is the biggest factor. Psychologists have identified the"reminiscence bump,"a phenomenon where we have the strongest emotional connection to the music we discovered during our teens and early twenties. For you, the music of your youth is tied to memories of friendship, first loves, and self-discovery. It's not that music was objectively better then; it's that it wasyour* music. Every generation believes the music of their youth was the best.
Innovation Has Shifted:While melodic and harmonic complexity may have decreased in the pop charts, innovation hasn't stopped—it has just moved. Today's producers are masters ofrhythm, texture, and sound design*. The intricate drum programming in hip-hop, the atmospheric soundscapes of electronic music, and the creative use of vocal processing (like Auto-Tune) are all areas of immense creativity that weren't as central to music in the 70s.
Unprecedented Diversity and Access:The Top 40 is more homogenous, but music as a whole has never been more diverse. Thanks to the internet and streaming, you can listen to Mongolian folk-metal, Brazilian funk, experimental jazz, or hyper-niche electronic subgenres with a single click. In the 1970s, you were largely limited to what the radio played and the record store stocked. The "average" quality of music might feel lower because the barrier to entry is gone—anyone can upload a song—but the sheer volume ofexcellent* niche music is greater than ever.

---

### When Was the Peak in Quality of Popular Music?

This is the most subjective question of all, as the "peak" depends entirely on your values. However, music critics and historians often point to a few key eras as being particularly innovative and culturally significant.

Here are the most common candidates for the "peak":

The Late 1960s (approx. 1966-1971):* Often cited as the ultimate "golden age." This period saw The Beatles revolutionize studio recording, the creative explosion of Motown, the birth of psychedelic rock (Jimi Hendrix), and the rise of seminal singer-songwriters (Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell). The speed of musical evolution was breathtaking.
The 1970s:* This decade saw the maturation of rock into distinct subgenres like progressive rock, arena rock, and punk. It was also the golden age of funk, soul, and disco, producing some of the most intricate and brilliantly produced music ever made.
The Early 1990s (approx. 1991-1996):* This era is championed by many Gen X'ers as a peak. It featured the raw authenticity of grunge (Nirvana, Pearl Jam) as a reaction to 80s excess, the "golden age" of hip-hop with artists like A Tribe Called Quest and Nas creating lyrically and sonically complex work, and the rise of alternative and indie rock.

### Conclusion: So, Is It Getting Worse?

Pop music on the charts is measurably simpler, louder, and less diverse in its instrumentation than it was in past decades.

However, music as a whole is more diverse, accessible, and innovative in different ways (rhythm, production) than ever before.

The feeling that music is "getting worse" is a combination of real, data-supported changes in pop music and the powerful psychological effect of nostalgia. The "peak" of music was likely whenever you were 17. But if you look beyond the charts, you'll find that there is more incredible music being made today than at any other time in history—you just have to go find it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfNdps0daF8

Odgledaj celo, odlicno je - na ovu temu

noob

Pogledao sam cijeli video i ne sviđa mi se. Lik koji je pravio taj video je očigledno muzički jako obrazovan i to poštujem, ali imam dosta zamjerki na video:

1, Video sam po sebi je možda dobar kao odgovor na taj drugi video koji sve vrijeme secira i pobija konkretno argumente tog videa, ali ne pobija generalno tezu da se muzika srozava po kvalitetu.
2. Da li se muzika kvari ili popravlja samo po sebi je subjektivna stvar i teško da se može ustanoviti nekim mjerenjem nekih parametara, tipa kompleksnost harmonije, teksture, varijacija glasnoće itd. Tako da, slažem se da je originalna postavka tog videa i te studije koju on kritikuje pogrešna, i OK je to da kritikuje.
3. Međutim ovaj lik što si ga linkovo pretjeruje, prvo što cjepidlači, secira bukvalno svaku riječ i svaku i najmanju nepreciznost, i 100 puta ponavlja jedan te isti argument ("timbre"). Čak i ako ti parametri koje je ta studija mjerila ništa ne dokazuju 100%, oni ipak mogu da ukažu na neku simplifikaciju muzike, i mogu poslužiti eventualno kao dodatni argument, onome što je većini nas subjektivno očigledno - da je muzika, makar ona mejnstrim muzika, u značajnoj mjeri se srozala. Ne kažem ja da danas nema vrhunske muzike - ima, ali ona je skrivena u moru nekih mikrožanrova i manje poznatih bendova i izvođača, a ono što većina ljudi sluša i što je poznato, je, tvrdim to DOSTA LOŠIJE nego što je bila muzika u periodu tipa od 1960. do 1990.
Znači po apsolutnoj količini vrhunske muzike vjerovatno je nikad nije bilo više nego danas, al aj ti budi faca pa to nađi. Ono što je popularno i društveno relevantno je mnogo lošije nego u drugoj polovini 20. vijeka.
4. Lik se razmeće svojim muzičko teoretskim znanjem, i koristi "proof by intimidation" - kao sad ako on se nama tu prosere sa nekim muzičko teoretskim sranjima, dokazaće nam da je onaj prethodni autor levat i da nema pojma, i da je sa savremenom muzikom ustvari sve u redu.
5. Za priču o tome u kom smjeru se kreće muzika po pitanju kvaliteta, mnogo su relevantnije subjektivne liste raznih muzičkih kritičara, i one takođe jasno ukazuju na to da je muzika ranije bila bolja.
Primjera radi. Časopis Rolling Stone objavljuje listu 500 najboljih pjesama svih vremena. I ovakav je raspored po decenijama, na najnovijoj verziji liste iz 2021:

1930s 3 0.6%
1940s 4 0.8%
1950s 24 4.8%
1960s 108 22%
1970s 144 29%
1980s 80 16%
1990s 70 14%
2000s 38 8%
2010s 30 6%

Jasno se vidi koje decenije dominiraju. Starije verzije su davale još veću prednost recimo pjesmama iz 1960-ih.

Evo ti originalne liste iz 2004.

1940s 1 0.2%
1950s 72 14%
1960s 203 41%
1970s 142 28%
1980s 57 11%
1990s 22 4.4%
2000s 3 0.6%

I ja se s tim u velikoj mjeri slažem iz prostog razloga, što sam i sam skino sa pajret beja neki torent gdje imaš svih tih 500 pjesama sa originalne liste, i sve sam ih preslušao. Na osnovu toga moj neki dojam je zaista da je period otprilike od 1965 do 1970. najjači po pitanju kvaliteta.
A od 1980. već značajan pad. A od 1990. pogotovo.

Znači pjesme iz čak pedesetih i šezdesetih dosta prijatnije i slušljivije.

6. Još jedan dokaz koliko je ranija muzika bila bolja i uticajnija je to koliko današnji muzičari rade obrada starih pjesama naročito iz 1980-ih. To se baš mnogo sempluje i obrađuje.

jovore, video je relativno zabavno kenjanje po studiji koja pokusava "objektivno" da dokaze da je jedna muzika bolja od druge. matematicki.

i po tome vredi kenjati, jer jedino sto mozes da kazes za muziku je da mi se ova vise svidja od one. to je jedini argument koji postoji.

kompleksnost, harmonija, glasnost, timber :), zavisi od instrumenta, produkcije, vremena, stila cega god. moz ti se svidja, mozda ne, ali to, da kazes da je ovo bolje/kvalitetnije od onog jer mi se ovo vise svidja, serem se u taj argument.

za sve postoji "ono". da je "najkvalitetnija" muzika najbolja, onaj dzez tipa "slusajte me kako silujem instrument svim notama koje znam", bi bila vrhunac. a nije.

i to... lako je napraviti jednostavnu pesmu popic. napravi je ako je lako.

svako ko svira instrument zna da je lakse da se siluje instrument nego da se napravi nesto jednostavno sto drugi cuju, i kaze nesto.

i sa svim mojim ne toliko velikim poznavanjem muzike, reci cu ti da je prosek muzike danas daleeeeeeeeko iznad proseka muzike u 50tim npr. svi ovi "kvalitet" satro argumenti.

https://youtu.be/jenWdylTtzs?list=RDjenWdylTtzs

tejlor svift pravi bolju muziku od ovoga.

i nemoj pogresno da me shvatis, nije ovo pljuvanje po bitlsima, poceli su i oni da se drogiraju kasnije i izbacivali muziku sto jebe.
par pesama doduse, 95% opusa im je tralala krshina.

poenta je - kvalitet muzike se ne meri brojkama i studijama. moze samo da ti se svidja ili ne.

jel ovo vriskanje iz publike bilo deo režije ili samo mejmune radile emocije

takvim mentalaćima si let na mesec mogao prodas ko dobar dan

našao si jednu od lošijih pjesama Bitlsa, a i ona je vrlo uticajna.
Šta kažeš na ovo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuS5NuXRb5Y

evo još jedna za celtaru koji misli da je prije muzika bila šit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ukmjBSQY-c

Citat:Hello darkness, my old friend
I’ve come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence


In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
‘Neath the halo of a streetlamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence


And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
No one dare
Disturb the sound of silence


“Fools” said I, “You do not know
Silence like a cancer grow
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you”
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence


And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said “The words of the prophets
Are written on subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence”

Pjesma super opisuje rastuće odsustvo istinske komunikacije u društvu, a uz to je i muzički sjajna, i vrlo prepoznatljiva do danas. Baš ima tu creepy atmosferu, u skladu sa tematikom.

to kvlt pesma.

nisam reko da je muzika bila sit, ja slusam muziku u rasponu od 16, 17. veka do danas. i volim.

samo kazem da bilo kakvo "objektivno" ocenjivanje bilo koje umetnosti je kerov kurac. umetnost je nacin da se nekome prenese emocija a ne razmisljanje. tu objektivnog kvaliteta nema.

danas imas svaceg za svakog. to sto se tebi cini da je nekad bilo bolje opisuje tebe a ne muziku.

Nisam ni ja rekao da ništa danas ne valja. Samo uviđam neki generalni trend, u kom smjeru se kreće prosjek.
Naravno da se i danas pravi dosta odličnih pjesama možda i više nego ranije u apsolutnom broju (mada upitno je i to), ali neki generalni trend i nije baš sjajan.
Slušam i ja i staro i novo.

Ali meni je možda motivacija za ovu temu to što mnogi ljudi ignorišu neke stare pjesme samo zato što su stare. Meni je žao današnjih klinaca što nisu ni čuli za mnoge od tih pjesama koje su kultne.

Jovor da jebe pod hitno

u pravu je jovor, ranije sve to bilo bolje, posebno 90ih sto to bila muzika lebe mekani

fazon ovo, ovo je kidalica

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTWKbfoikeg&list=RDhTWKbfoikeg&start_radio=1